Police admit firing fatal bullet

[kokonutwoman]

Police admit firing fatal bullet
By LEIGH VAN DER STOEP - Sunday Star Times | Sunday, 25 January 2009

A post-mortem examination has revealed the shot that killed a 17-year-old Auckland father and courier driver during a dramatic motorway shootout came from a police gun.

The shootout between police and a crazed gunman on Friday ended tragically with the death of Halatau "Tau" Naitoko who had been doing a courier run on Auckland's Northwestern Motorway. Police had been pursuing a known violent 50-year-old offender through several West Auckland suburbs after he allegedly pointed a sawn-off .22 calibre rifle at an officer.

The high-speed chase brought them to the motorway where the gunman, allegedly driving a stolen Nissan Skyline, crashed and then attempted to hijack a truck driver at gunpoint.

Witnesses say Armed Offenders Squad members opened fire on the man after he shot at and injured the truck driver, Richard Neville.

Naitoko received a single shot to the chest. A post-mortem examination yesterday showed the bullet was from one of the M4 rifles used by the AOS officers.

The investigation into Naitoko's homicide is being headed by an officer from outside of Auckland, Detective Inspector Peter Devoy, of Waikato.

Auckland Assistant Commissioner Steven Shortland told media yesterday the investigation had so far established that AOS officers fired five shots.

The gun that fired the fatal shot has been narrowed down to be one of two M4 rifles and the officers who had fired them are being counselled.

He said the officers were devastated at the death and had been doing their duty to protect the public from a "rampaging" gunman, who was in hospital under police guard recovering from "shrapnel" wounds believed to be from the police gunfire hitting the back of Neville's truck, where he was hiding.

He was stable after undergoing surgery to the chest wounds. Police have charged him with failing to stop for police and presenting a firearm at an officer.

He is expected to appear in court tomorrow.

Meanwhile, Police Minister Judith Collins went to Naitoko's family home to offer condolences and assure the family three investigations have been launched into the shooting. They include an Independent Police Conduct Authority inquiry.

Superintendent George Fraser also visited the family to tell them of the investigation findings.

At hearing police had fired the fatal shot, Naitoko's mother, Ivoni Fuimaono, said: "Some family members are very, very angry.

"But I'm not. I just thank God. I'm not angry, only God knows what happened yesterday."

She added: "I hope and wish it won't happen to anyone else."

-----------------------------
Not a happy situation I suppose all brown people look the same under fire.

This kid seem to have everything going for him.

Homicide investigation should be an interesting outcome

[maire]

A sad sad incident that should not have happened. His family are understandably angry and I
don't blame them at all.
Put a gun in an adrenaline overloaded mans hand and anything can & will happen.

[Misstique]

Gosh that is awful - I rarely watch TV or the News. Didn't know about this at all. The poor young chap. I feel for the family big time. But I also feel for the Squad member who discharged the fatal shot. He has to live with the death of an innocent by his hands, for the rest of his life. Geez its sad all round. His mama sounds like a very forgiving & God abiding woman, bless her - I don't know if I could be so humble if it was my son? Yes I know, au contraire. But I hope I never have to find out!

[Lux]

Expensive handbag

[toerag]

real expensive

[sparrow]

This is a really sad case. I feel for the lad and his aiga. His mother was amazing on the news last night. She was so forgiving and kind, and I thought I'd follow her lead on this one. This is just tragic.

[naki]

This is the first time ever that the police have fatally injured an innocent bystander in an armed incident. That in itself speaks volumes about the restraint and accuracy of our armed police.
There will be a full investigation, and those who disagree with its findings will no doubt be given every opportunity to challenge them.

It's always horrible when someone is prematurely taken through no fault of their own, butmore so when someone is accidentally killed by someone who is risking his own life to protect the victim.

If the law in this country does not allow for the offender to be charged with the full consequenses of his actions, we need to look at changing the law. The criminal who created the standoff that ended with a 17 year old dead should be charged at the very least with manslaughter.

[Lux]

It isn't the first time that a fatality/ injury has occurred during a police pursuit though. Just off the top of my head I can remember one quite a few years back where the offender being chased crashed into another car, a two year old died. And another where a police vehicle hit and killed a 15 year old pedestrian. Last year a long term member of the police force was hit and killed by a vehicle which was being pursued.

On googling 'fatalities Police pursuit New Zealand'. I found these articles. I did include the link addies but they stretched the page, deleted them, so you could just google words in bold above.

Quote' This review was commissioned in late July 2003 by the Deputy Commissioner Operations. DC Long sought an authoritative study to assess the quality and adequacy of current pursuits policy and practice in the wake of considerable media and public concern over two pursuits in 2003 that ended with three fatalities. These deaths occurred in a short space of time, and contrasted with just six pursuit related deaths in the previous seven years...

Another link:

Man died during police pursuit
By New Zealand Police
140 views

CHRISTCHURCH

Christchurch police are seeking a driver after a man was killed in an fatal accident during a police pursuit on River Road last night.

A 52 year old man was killed at 11.19pm on Wednesday 29 October. His death is being investigated and has been referred to the IPCA.

Detective Senior Sergeant David Harvey says that a member of the public stopped at the scene soon after the crash but drove off before police could get their details.

"We'd like to locate this person and speak with them," he says. "We 'd also like to speak to anyone in the area of River Road, Stanmore Road, Gloucester Street last night who was disturbed or who had concerns about the driving of a motor cyclist."

From a 2003 article...

Quote...The former New Zealand Formula One driver has joined a police- initiated committee reviewing the force's pursuit policy. It has been prompted by the worst spate of fatal crashes during police chases since 1991. Five people have died during four pursuits in the past six months--the most recent was in Marlborough last Monday...

2008

Police pursuits fruitless and out of hand
Monday, 7 July 2008, 9:24 am
Press Release: Candor Trust

Police pursuits fruitless and out of hand
Media release - Candor Trust

Pursuit policy needs tightening - NZ Police have too much discretion to pursue non violent offenders, say Candor Trust. Condemnation of a-Wild West Policing approach comes, as yet another family gets that dreaded knock after a chase gone awry.Police must remember that Speed Kills and read the Bill of Rights say Candor Trust.

Police determination to get their stolen car, intact or demolition derby style invoked the crash into a building and injury of a 4WD thief in Dunedin yesterday, and contributed to the death of an offender with high risk factors in Palmerston North the prior night, whilst also endangering 2 innocents disturbed in a Palmerston North bedroom. This occurred when Police's quarry, deceased after hitting a power pole, smashed a vehicle into their home.
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With 3% of the last 2 months road toll being pursuit caused and a third of pursuit injury typically visited on innocent bystanders.. it is time to ask if Government is meeting it's Bill of Rights obligations not to deprive people - particularly Maori people - of life. Pursuits are more rampant in Maori communities.

On the 1st July 2 Whangarei Police Officers were injured in a head on collision with a likely drugged quarry (he had P and pot in the car) who had been chased for a full 10 minutes, endangering the public and the mans passengers after he had declinied to partake in a checkpoint.

Last month at 5pm in Northcote, Auckland 4 police cars participated in a chase that ended in a stolen vehicle with a passenger being wrapped around a power pole. The offenders were lucky to survive and sought refuge at a local marae.

Also last month an 18 year old who had run an intersection was pursued in his fragile mitsi mirage causing the man to lose control of the car on a bend beside the Dargaville Racecourse, He clipping two pine trees and was killed. Determination to slap a ticket on this guy was not in his or anyones road safety interests.

No stolen vehicle or discrete traffic offence is worth taking these sorts of known pursuit risks for, particularly in residential areas. A serious review of why NZ Police accrue so many chase deaths and injuries is overdue - the second one of recent times conducted earlier this year seems to have protected the status quota hunt.

Using increased Police numbers to obtain an additional 915 traffic prosecutions per year rising to 73013 by 2010 (cabinet paper 3) has demonstrably reduced safety - with many deaths now resulting from ill advised offence quota driven Police chases.

Adequate law enforcement is obtainable if there is an Officer per 5000 vehicles, as an Officers wage should be subsumed by the tickets then issued, but NZ has approximately one road cop per 2,500. Police highway patrol hours rose from 200 000 in 2003 to over 350 000 this year, but the total cost to society from injury and deaths on highways dropped by under 1% from 1.61Billion to 1.6Billion

The failure to improve road safety was certainly in part due to cowboy chase culture. Saturation level policing of NZ roads most recently saw the occurence of 2000 chase in the prior year, a rise of 50% on 3 years ago. Candor Trust estimates 2-3% of the yearly road toll is chase invoked which is extraordinary.

This estimate is taken from media reported chase tolls noted over the last 2 years, Police figures would be adjusted down by claims chases were called off.

Many U.S. States have lately adopted restrictive chase policies (such as our situation warrants) with great benefits. In consequence to a tight new chase policy, Toronto recorded no deaths or injuries to Officers, suspects or third parties from chases in 2006.

There is spreading awareness that most chases are immeasurably more dangerous than any triggering offence. Utterly unable to be rationally justified in today's dense traffic conditions.Now research has led to more understanding of chase statistics, it doesn't take the benefit of hindsight to realise many of the chases embarked on here for reasons reported by the news media eg breached learner conditions, are surplus.

Interviews with runners have revealed most have no intention of stopping their wild ride "until I'm safe" as many put it. Safe was almost inevitably defined by runners this way; having out run the Police.

Regardless how minor the original offence, a few dynamics feed into this desperate decision making process of ramping up speed. Immaturity often features (hence bans on chasing youth elsewhere). Police are also motivated to continue pursuits exacerbating the situation as then they can chalk up dangerous driving convictions.

U.S. Pursuit expert Dr Geoff Alpert notes that under twenty percent of high speed chases are triggered by major offences in some States, and 1-2% typically result in death/s in regions with lax policies (AAA Foundation report).

The reason NZ's risk may be even higher is our extremely heavy Police presence - combined with the pressure of "performance measures" to be met on each shift. Quotas have made Police bounty hunters and that has had many serious ramifications for road safety.

Restrictive chase policies don't increase anarchy

Studies consistently show pursuits involve drug or drink drivers 1/2 the time, but Pursuit Watch advises pursuing impaired drivers is unwise.

Where policies have been upgraded in the interests of public safety in the U.S.A. road carnage has decreased, and done so in the absence of any reduction in conviction rates for crimes.

Number plates are usually sufficient to locate most offenders later - and few victim families would argue that seizing a stolen car or apprehending the thief for sure and on the spot is worth placing a life or bystanders in serious danger.

Minor & non violent offenders who run are best tracked by an Automatic Number Plate Recognition system if their eventual capture is a real priority. Most runners are not joyriders in stolen vehicles. The Government needs to get on with instituting NZ's ANPR system, and legislate for heavier penalties for runners when they are caught up with rather than plan on using aggressive pursuit policy to bury them today.

ENDS
~~~~

Those links taken from the first page of googling.

Most caused through high speed chases, some victims obviously those who were being chased and chose to speed on causing their own deaths. But what if you've got some nutter driving and the car is full of teenagers. Would easing off be the best option?

Sorta like surgeons. Some people die during operations but we never really know whether the cause is through negligence or misadventure, because we are taught to trust and believe in the professionals who carry out the job.

Highly trained? or inadequate that is the question. Up to making split second decisions which could save somebody or cause fatalities? We don't know.

It is a very sad tragedy...one which is being investigated by Police, Coroner and... an independent?

I think we should never just accept an outcome like this one, we need to question and to ensure improvement of quality of service, if things are found lacking...the death of an innocent should never be taken lightly or just accepted because it is in our natures to trust the judgment of professionals. IMO.

[terauparaha]

I doubt that the main reason people join the police force is to protect the rest of society. I bet the adrenaline thing is the main reason myself.


My best mate was living in Wellington at the time of the springbok rugby protests and he and his partner lived together with a cop and his partner. Well this cop was in the front lines against the protestors and my mate says that this guy came home at the end of the day fizzing with excitement. I kid you not. The guy even said that it was the best day of his life and that he was still on a high from hitting people even women.

Of course this has little to do with this case as I have no idea of the situation at the time but it still adds some pespective to it all when you see that at least some cops enjoy the excitement involved with performing violent acts on people. I'm sure that they do enjoy the car chases though.

Also some of us here know of a couple of ex-cops who used to be regular posters in trade me who are nothing short of slimeballs, sexual predator slimeballs.

clues

One of them is very dODGY and the other dOESN'T do much.

[kokonutwoman]

I have always been weary of the arm defenders squad here (chc) since I saw a news report about 13 shots being fired at a dog, of all creatures and they missed. This is a clear indication of inadequate training. I agree Lux, quality of service is questionable.

What annoyed me tonight was all the excuses for the 50 year old offender actions. He is a recidivist offender and therefore no excuses his family or mates say will change the fact that his stupidity lead to the death of a young lad.

[Lux]

Yes made me mad as hell too koko, arsehole

True Te Rau, can't tell me that police are immune to the thrill of a chase, like all of us they need to remember that with rights come responsibilities.

[naki]

Wow, folks, you really have it in for the police, don't you?

Instead of dealing with the case under discussion, you'd rather hunt for any incident that you can use to vent your anger through, even if it means going back to events that happened best part of thirty years ago.

I reiterate my point, lest the facts become swamped in all of this negative witch-hunting.

This is the first time that an innocent bystander has been shot dead by the police in New Zealand.

As lux points out, there have been cases where innocent bystanders have been fatally wounded by fleeing offenders, but I think it's stretching credibility to blame the police. In every case where the police are involved in a pursuit, there is also a reckless criminal. In every case where the police have been party to a fatal injury in a pursuit, it is the offender's vehicle that has been driven beyond its limits. To the best of my knowledge, NO POLICE PURSUIT HAS EVER ENDED IN A BYSTANDER BEING KILLED BY A POLICE OFFICER'S CAR.
Your google search has not found one single police pursuit fatality in NZ history. What it has found is a string of useless crooks who can't drive to save their own lives.

To blame the police for the criminal actions of others is repulsive to me. If you don't want our present police force to do the job to the best of their abilities, you'd better stock up on mace and baseball bats and pray that any offender who puts you in harm's way doesn't have better weapons than yourself.

There are grounds under nz law to charge someone with murder if they are aware that their actions may result in death but they pursue them regardless. The idiot who initiated the chain of events that led to the death of this young man is a career criminal and a murderer, and should go to prison for life.
The police who were attempting to apprehend a suspect who was both armed and known to police as a recidivist offender, in a busy urban setting have my greatest respect and support.

[kokonutwoman]

Point taken Naki however, there are some police officers that should never have been allowed in the police force and quality of service has slipped over recent years.

In order to be a member of the arm defenders squad it would pay be a crack shot preferably a sniper and have undergone rigid pysc test. I do not condone the shot to kill philosophy but shot to maim. There are a number of examples where the police have aimed to kill recently when a disabling shot would have suffice .

Forty years ago the police force had a rigid entry requirement, this has lapsed to allow an increase numbers. The amalgamation of the traffic and police was one huge mistake as members of the traffic department was usually the police applicants that didn't cut the grade.

To say "really have it in for the police?" Well, yes but more so their procedures and operation. Not every Tom dick Harry or Louise makes a good cop. Bring back the rigorous requirements then maybe.....

[Lux]

Everyone is accountable for their actions naki, I'm not a police hater but I don't believe each and everyone of them to be demi gods to be followed blindly either.

You are right about the pedestrian I found and article, a boy pedestrian was hit and suffered head and neck injuries when a police car in pursuit, hit a lamp post which then collapsed onto him.

I apologise.

Quote....Your google search has not found one single police pursuit fatality in NZ history. What it has found is a string of useless crooks who can't drive to save their own lives....

Not all of those killed were the driver, so I wouldn't be assuming that all those killed were crooks or driving.

And personally I wouldn't want to give up the life of any of my children, who might be in the wrong place...for example traveling down a busy highway...at the wrong time. I will continue to question the quality of service performed by the Police, just as I would question the quality of service of any expert or any professional who might endanger or be a party to endangering another human being.

[punga]

these guys in the AOS,do they do normal police duty as well,does anyone know?

[misilon]

I feel that a better outcome should have come about with the AOS on the job

it is after all a specialized job

its too easy to close ones eyes and just see the bad guy

it was a stuff up in my opinion,.

still there is probably a book waiting to be written

about,...." from the moment the bullet left the gun to impact"!!

[naki]

You are right, lux, the police are not demi gods. Their job is to find offenders and deliver them to the court system.And I back them 100% in that role.

If it ever came to pass that the police routinely killed bystanders in the course of their duties, I'd be as swift to jump on them as some of the narrow-minded armchair cops have been to jump on them this week. It's devastating that a young hard-working father got caught up in a confrontation between an armed scumbag and the frankly bloody awesome New Zealand police, and disgusting that there are so many willing to condemn the cops without having the faintest notion of the exact circumstances of his accidental death.

Someone suggested that 'the adrenaline thing' was the main reason people join the police force. Sorry, but that is plain stupid. 99.9% of police work is routine, procedure and paperwork. There's no adrenaline rush to be had from driving down to pak'n'save and processing the third shoplifter they've caught in a day. There's no adrenaline in hanging around the district court every monday morning to give evidence against the sundry petty criminals who vomitted on your shoes on Saturday night. There's no adrenaline in making a house call to advise that a loved one has been killed at work nor any adrenaline from holding a crying kid while the fire crew cuts daddy's feet free from the remains of his car.

I'd love to be able to be a cop, but I was too old before I realised that doing good for the community can be motivation in itself, and the pay ain't bad either. Having spent my younger years in countries that actually have substandard police practices, it raises my hackles to see otherwise-sensible people stab a better-than-average law enforcement service in the back instead of letting them get on with the job that we pay them for. There will be a full investigation, far more rigorous and public than any held in a lot of countries. Until the all of the facts have been made public, and the officers at the scene have been given fair opportunity to put their version of events in front of a formal inquiry, anyone who uses this incident as an excuse to bash the cops has my contempt.

[kokonutwoman]

Jan 27, 2009 18:55:07 GMT 12 punga said:

these guys in the AOS,do they do normal police duty as well,does anyone know?

AOS and PNT (Police Negotiation Team) are part time and on a voluntary basis. They are pulled off normal duties when an incident occurs.

[punga]

Jan 28, 2009 8:44:45 GMT 12 kokonutwoman said:

Jan 27, 2009 18:55:07 GMT 12 punga said:

these guys in the AOS,do they do normal police duty as well,does anyone know?

AOS and PNT (Police Negotiation Team) are part time and on a voluntary basis. They are pulled off normal duties when an incident occurs.

i believe our police do a fine job,given their recources.
nz police,very rarely kill anyone,even the dam crims.
if i was a cop and had to break the news to a family,that one of their own had just been killed in a car accident...and the a few ours later,i had to attend an AOS situation...i dont think i could shoot straight...
im just looking at it from the cops point of view.
how often does the same thing happen in the states,i wonder?

[bingbong]

I disagree with your views Punga in that what happens in the US is not relevant here and there appears to have been a massive failing by the NZ Police in this situation I believe as the Police choose there job there is no problem in charging the Police Officer involved as he would have no problem in justifying his situation. The are trained to shoot and he pulled the trigger and having used guns myself with the the equipment they have they do have sights on their guns this needs to be prosecuted just like the Police prosecuted the Auckland dairy owner when he was defending himself in the shop even though I believe the robber got what he deserved. The family of the dead boy here have not received any form of justice especially with big mouth Greg O'onner the Police Association spokesperson shooting his mouth off early trying in his usual biased way to set the seen as the Police as the "Real' 'Victim.

Myself as a conservative person and a person that is not anti Police but pro Police I believe here the Police must Prosecute the Police Officer involved who has killed a young boy.

[toerag]

Is NZ a third world country? If not then we should expect the best service from all our government agency ie health and justice. Better than average doesn't cut it for me when lives are at stake. Why the hell do we pay those blardy high taxes for?

[punga]

accidents/mistakes happen everywhere and our police are very good when you compare them with other countries.
in my opinion,the cop didnt cause the death...the crim did.

[sparrow]

There seems to be a couple of issues going on here that I think need a bit of clarification. The young man was killed accidentally by the Police. There is now no question about that. The events leading up to it was when a career criminal went on the rampage. No doubt about that either.

I don't buy into the idea that any criticism of Police actions is anti-Police. It is the same as saying having reservations about the war in Iraq is anti-America. The Police have greater responsibilities than ordinary citizens and the actions they take affect people's lives more so than most other professions. In saying that, however, if you cannot question the actions of the Police, for fear of being characterised as "anti-Police", then I believe you are on the slippery slope. Of course Police actions should be questioned: because they do have greater responsibilities and power than the rest of us, the decisions they make have life threatening (and altering) consequences and we live in a democracy.

There's a big difference in saying: I hate the Police because they're the Police AND I want to know what went wrong in this instance, and asking how the Police are trained in this instance.

I agree with Bingbong in relation to Greg O'Connor. There's a tragedy here. A young man lost his life. I accept that a police officer made a mistake, but a young man is dead here. He doesn't get to feel terrible about the circumstances of his death because he's, um, dead. The day we shrug our shoulders and say that's awful, mistakes happen but our Police have a really good track record is the day when we actually lose something: compassion for that young man and his family. I, for one, will welcome an independent investigation into the death of this young man, not to hang the officer, but to ensure the young man and his family get justice, and to mitigate the risk that this might happen to someone else driving along a motorway doing their job.

I know that this is (in memory) the first time an innocent victim has been shot by Police, but it is most certainly not the first time an innocent bystander has been killed or maimed by the Police/Army in this country. People who are saying that have a very recent/presentist view of New Zealand history.

[naki]

Jan 28, 2009 13:43:13 GMT 12 toerag said:

Is NZ a third world country? If not then we should expect the best service from all our government agency ie health and justice. Better than average doesn't cut it for me when lives are at stake. Why the hell do we pay those blardy high taxes for?

Better than average is good enough for me, given that armed offences are not exactly a daily occurence in any neighborhood. The way the police allocate their budget is based on priorities. Hundreds are killed every year on our roads, which is why most of our police are trained to do traffic work. Armed standoffs are rare, and until recently, no bystanders had been killed as a result. Do you seriously think we should re-write the manual because one officer fired his weapon and hit the wrong target?

Let's at least wait for the enquiry to document the full circumstances of this incident before demanding that 'the police' somehow miraculously become infallible. If any of those who have rushed to judgement on this board were actually there and saw the incident, speak up now. Tell us how close the police were to the offender, the victim, and other bystanders. Tell us who was moving in which direction, and who[if anyone] the offender's gun was pointed at. Tell us if the officer who fired the shot had come under fire at any stage. Give us the same information about the offender that the police on the ground had.
Tell us how much experience the officers have using firearms in urban settings. Tell us what the officer thought he was aiming at.

I can't judge this incident yet. I guess we all have opinions, but they can ony reflect our opinions of the police force as a whole, or our opinions of gun-toting thieves. I know which side I'd rather trust.

[Lux]

Quote...Let's at least wait for the enquiry to document the full circumstances of this incident before demanding that 'the police' somehow miraculously become infallible. If any of those who have rushed to judgement on this board were actually there and saw the incident, speak up now. Tell us how close the police were to the offender, the victim, and other bystanders. Tell us who was moving in which direction, and who[if anyone] the offender's gun was pointed at. Tell us if the officer who fired the shot had come under fire at any stage. Give us the same information about the offender that the police on the ground had.
Tell us how much experience the officers have using firearms in urban settings. Tell us what the officer thought he was aiming at...

We don't know the answers to any of that naki, that's why its important to question these things, to ascertain whether things could have been done differently and saved the life of an innocent.