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Post by kokonutwoman on Jan 19, 2009 7:31:10 GMT 12
Second Kiwi cafe shuns Israelis
The Dominion Post | Monday, 19 January 2009
A second cafe has told Israelis they are not welcome, prompting calls from Israel for tourists to boycott New Zealand.
Just days after the owner of Invercargill's Mevlana Cafe refused to serve two Israeli customers as a personal protest against the Israeli attack on Gaza, a Kaikoura cafe has put up a sign saying Israeli customers were not welcome till military action stopped.
The move infuriated Kaikoura Mayor Kevin Heays, who said he was taking legal advice on whether the sign outside the Strawberry Tree restaurant and bar was legal.
Other Kaikoura business owners have posted signs of their own which said diners of any nationality would be welcome.
Strawberry Tree owner Shane Cavanagh said he had worked in the Middle East and was appalled by Israel's actions in Gaza. Though he would not ask Israelis to leave, they were not welcome at his business.
Mr Heays said he had not spoken to Mr Cavanagh, despite repeated efforts, but the sign had been taken down and replaced by a death toll from the latest conflict, which has killed more than 1200 Palestinians and 13 Israelis.
But it was too late for hundreds of people who flooded leading Israeli website ynetnews.com with messages, including calls for Israeli tourists to boycott New Zealand.
One person included the Strawberry Tree's address and phone number and the message: "Please call the owner and say `Hi from Israel'."
Mr Heays has posted his own comment on the site, promising to "closely scrutinise" the bar owner's licence.
"I am extremely upset and angry. I am taking legal and police steps to have the sign removed and I will be looking into making a complaint to the Human Rights Commission."
Mr Heays told The Dominion Post last night that he posted an apology to make it clear the protest did not reflect the views of the community. "I've yet to speak to anyone who is in support of the public stand that he's making. "
Race Relations Commissioner Joris de Bres said last week that refusing to serve any customers on the grounds of ethnic or national origin or of political opinion was a clear breach of human rights laws.
Israel called a ceasefire yesterday.
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Definitely a breach of Human Rights. If they let this slide then a precedent will be set. On that basis I say charge the the cafe owners.
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Post by sparrow on Jan 19, 2009 8:50:53 GMT 12
I'm ambivalent on this one, Koko. I know for a fact that if the boot was on the other foot in Israel, they would not give a toss.
Check out the bully boy tactics of the mayor saying he's going to scrutinise the Cafe's license. Jeez, he's not going to use his position to abuse someone is he and has made that comment public? He could face charges himself.
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Post by maire on Jan 19, 2009 14:51:59 GMT 12
Check out the bully boy tactics of the mayor saying he's going to scrutinise the Cafe's license. Jeez, he's not going to use his position to abuse someone is he and has made that comment public? He could face charges himself. I picked up on that too Sparrow .. not a very clever comment to make, especially from a public servant. If he "finds" anything re the license and acts on it, he is no better than the cafe owner or for that matter, the Israeli army. It comes down to revenge and although some will say revenge is sweet, imo it's destructive and in the mayors case, very childish. |
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Post by kokonutwoman on Jan 19, 2009 15:38:26 GMT 12
Point taken on both, however I do not want to see a precedent set by deny service on the grounds of ethnicity.
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naki
Full Member
Posts: 233
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Post by naki on Jan 19, 2009 15:48:19 GMT 12
.......AND THIS IS HOW IT STARTS.
We as a nation must come down hard on this kind of childish nonsense. As a country, we have made huge progress in the last two generations to correct previous injustices and prevent prejudice from souring the relationship between pakeha and Maori. You'll never eradicate racism entirely, it is deeply rooted as part of our survival instincts, but you can say that it is not o.k. to act on it.
New Zealand is relatively new to the art of race relations. It's been a long and uphill battle to get fairer treatment for minorities in this country. We must step hard on the people who think that just because we don't have large numbers of Israelis here, it is safe to discriminate against them. To those who have come from that region, I say leave that fight at the airport. Their war is not our war. New Zealand is a small nation, a tiny blip on the radar of world affairs. The best way that we can serve humanity is to protest against the war itself, not the parties fighting it.
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Post by sparrow on Jan 19, 2009 16:05:56 GMT 12
Point taken on both, however I do not want to see a precedent set by deny service on the grounds of ethnicity. Agreed. It is, however, nationality and not ethnicity (splitting fine hairs, I know!). This is stupid, but so is the vilification these people are getting and the heavy handed tactics of "public" officials, commentators etc. I don't like the abuse and harassment the Mevlana Cafe owner is getting either. How pathetic. Slap these people over the hands with a wet bus ticket. Ask them if they endorse discrimination of any sort (I bet they would say no), point out they've just committed it and then tell them they need to apologise or make some kind of public statement. I then hope they put pictures up of the atrocities committed over that way and the death toll figures in their cafe. That should be a starting point and a way in which you can make your political position known. In saying that, I think the two Israeli tourists in the Mevlana Cafe incident are nothing but stirrers. They just wanted publicity and revenge on this guy - pretty much the Israeli foreign policy principles ... I don't want that here either. |
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Post by terauparaha on Jan 19, 2009 20:49:27 GMT 12
.......AND THIS IS HOW IT STARTS. We as a nation must come down hard on this kind of childish nonsense. As a country, we have made huge progress in the last two generations to correct previous injustices and prevent prejudice from souring the relationship between pakeha and Maori. You'll never eradicate racism entirely, it is deeply rooted as part of our survival instincts, but you can say that it is not o.k. to act on it. New Zealand is relatively new to the art of race relations. It's been a long and uphill battle to get fairer treatment for minorities in this country. We must step hard on the people who think that just because we don't have large numbers of Israelis here, it is safe to discriminate against them. To those who have come from that region, I say leave that fight at the airport. Their war is not our war. New Zealand is a small nation, a tiny blip on the radar of world affairs. The best way that we can serve humanity is to protest against the war itself, not the parties fighting it. My opinion naki is that it's mainly the recent NZ govts who have improved race relations in NZ, not the people themselves. The govts, both national who was first and then labour have changed their policies on the treaty of Waitangi but most people I talk to are dead against the treaty claiming we have now. Mind you I'm in South Canterbury. LOL I think it is up to each individual person on whether they protest or how they protest in such situations as we have now. What we should be taking notice of is the effect this is having on us so what is it like all over the world? Very interesting. Of course the media has a huge say in things too plus we now have an anti America thing, hence anti Israel which is stronger than ever thanks to George Bush. |
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Post by bottlecar on Jan 19, 2009 21:18:05 GMT 12
As much as I condemn what is happening in Gaza I agree with Naki - we need to come down hard on this. No one in NZ should be refused to be served based solely because on their ethnicity or nationality. I live in a town where in living memory Maoris could only sit upstairs at the movie theatre, and the Indians and Chinese were not granted the same rights as European settlers. Any discrimination on race is abhorant.
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Post by terauparaha on Jan 19, 2009 21:36:28 GMT 12
I know what you're saying Bottlecar but the two cafe owners have very strong views, ideals based on one being from Turkey and the Kaikoura guy having lived in the Middle East. I can see where they are coming from.
In saying that I certainly wouldn't like this to escalate to the point where many NZ businesses do the same thing. Of course it could go the other way with Israel supporters doing the same to Arabs.
It's just one big mess isn't it? and it must be bigger in many parts of the world. Of course this is what Hamas wants but I too see their position in all of this.
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Post by bottlecar on Jan 20, 2009 6:12:01 GMT 12
I can understand the business owners feelings and frustrations, but you are right about escalation Te Rau Then it just becomes tit for tat. I would compare it to a US owned business here refusing to serve Muslims after 911 although that is probably not a valid comparision as we are talking about state aggression rather than terrorism.
Sanctions and protests are fine, but discrimination no matter what the reason is not acceptable.
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Post by maire on Jan 20, 2009 7:50:33 GMT 12
I didn't see the cafe owners protests as a discrimatory action. I saw it purely as a protest against what Israel was doing.
Do we not have the right to protest in NZ?
I wonder how many did or wanted to
protest against any French person after the Rainbow Warrior bombing. And were those protestors vilified as much as the Turkish cafe owner has been.
Imo in his case, it all comes back to religion and Christians deep rooted hatred/fear of the Muslim religion.
I just hope it all blows over soon, it has been blown out of all proportion by the media, as per usual.
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Post by bottlecar on Jan 20, 2009 10:11:17 GMT 12
I agree Maire, the media have a lot to answer for!
But disagree with you on the discrimination bit. Protest is good, after the Rainbow Warrior a lot of people chose not to visit France or buy French goods - me included. Boycotts and diplomatic measures are fine, but not to bar or ban individuals. That would be like banning Fijians from your business if you were a Fijian Indian in NZ and didn't approve of the Fijian govt.
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Post by sparrow on Jan 20, 2009 12:40:17 GMT 12
Imo, the guy definitely did discriminate. I think the question is what to do about it. There are mitigating factors. In my view, they should slap him on the hand with a wet bus ticket, make him apologise and let that be an end to it. I'm sure in hindsight he would agree that his actions are discriminatory, but I don't want to see this guy buried because of his "protest".
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Post by cailz on Jan 20, 2009 14:39:04 GMT 12
Maire, you asked whether we have the right to protest in NZ?
Yes we do, but not when it hurts others. It has to be done without breaking the law.
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Post by sparrow on Jan 20, 2009 15:31:33 GMT 12
The Springbok Tour protestors broke the law and when they didn't the State said they did anyway.
This guy has broken the law though, but the question I'm asking is what sort of punishment should he be dished out now? And do you think the harassment this guy has had should be taken into consideration? Afterall those people have broken the laws too. I'm pretty sure death threats are against the law ...
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Post by bottlecar on Jan 20, 2009 16:11:08 GMT 12
Agree Sparrow, punishment and harassment are worse than the 'crime'. I would imagine barring people because of nationality falls under the Human Rights Act, and it's hardly a big offence but I don't know what the actual law says in regards to punishment. Protesters can protest without breaking the law.
Like Maire says the media spin makes it all a lot worse.
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Post by maire on Jan 20, 2009 19:02:48 GMT 12
I bow to those with all the info on this incident  .. I haven't followed it until yesterday and then have only read a couple of very biased threads on TM and this one here, so do not know the full story. I'm breaking my own rules too, ie no posting an opinion on something I know little or nothing about ;D |
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Post by kokonutwoman on Jan 20, 2009 19:55:01 GMT 12
Don't sell yourself short Maire.
The Springbox Tour was something else. As a protester of old I was arrested twice during that episode in NZ history and charged with Civil Disobedient. In my eyes I did not break the law - I did not destroy someones property or bash anyone. However my mates were bashed, so who broke the law there? But I digress,
I say charge, the guy and award him a wet bus ticket.
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Post by bottlecar on Jan 20, 2009 20:16:52 GMT 12
Maire, I've hardly kept up with the news on this one (damned work!) I think I'm woefully (or blissfully) unaware of the news reports on this one and am just forming my opinion on my general feeling. I haven't even read the TM threads.
Agree Koko a wet bus ticket sounds like the right way to deal with it.
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.. I haven't followed it until yesterday and then have only read a couple of very biased threads on TM and this one here, so do not know the full story. I'm breaking my own rules too, ie no posting an opinion on something I know little or nothing about ;D