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Post by Lux on May 31, 2007 8:25:40 GMT 12
Had to watch it again, and it still sent tingles up my spine, I went on the march to Parliament, and it was the most wonderful display of unity I have ever experienced, if the call came again, I'd be there with bells on! Anyone else go on the hikoi? How did you feel about? If you do support the foreshore and seabed legislation why do you support it? If you don't support it, why don't you?
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Post by manuela on May 31, 2007 12:21:48 GMT 12
I have been in NZ for 10 years now... just becoming a Kiwi on paper (soon)... I have followed the seabed and foreshore "issue" and I am amazed! I read a lot about the NZ history of the first settlers, and was amazed too!!! the maori culture (as I get it to know better and better) is very fascinating, and I hope for NZ that this culture can be carried on and on and on!
so from a "newcomer" kiwi point of view: isn't it time we bury all those "issues" and try to live an equal life?
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Post by bossybitch on May 31, 2007 15:51:27 GMT 12
That would be difficult in a country that has a diversity of opinions towards the issues it'self....like you have said get to know it better....  Yes it is our culture but only when appropriate and necessary. Yes I went on the hikoi in Wairarapa...Ngati Kahungunu, some of us were there bonded alongside those proud, Pakeha and Maori alike. I don't mind sharing the beauty and being able to roam free on the golden sands to the black sands all over New Zealand  Cheers glad you are enjoying the lifestyle of NZ. ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by manuela on May 31, 2007 15:57:00 GMT 12
of course there is a diversity of opinions! so just because there are so many opinions, we shouldn't look for a solution?
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Post by sparrow on May 31, 2007 16:39:11 GMT 12
Sometimes "solutions" are offered to mask issues and it appears Maori are always asked to make the compromise. Maori have settled for less than 1% of their total claims in settlement.
The foreshore and seabed issue to me centres on how it appears okay in NZ to take away the democratic rights of Maori (to have their day in Court) when it is Maori issues and how the mainstream of the country appear to endorse it.
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Post by manuela on May 31, 2007 17:39:12 GMT 12
so can I ask why Maori should get "special" treatments or rights in the general law?
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 18:00:52 GMT 12
Bloody typical manuela
The Maori culture is oh so nice BUT BUT BUT
If you really had learnt as much as is needed about NZ and Maoridom, you would be more informed and wouldn't spout out the usual claptrap from the people Whom really don't give a toss about or respect Maoridom.
Many Pakeha also participated in the Hikoi. Obviously the ones who have gone to the trouble to learn what it is all about.
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 18:08:25 GMT 12
Oh Oh Aren't the Aboriginals cute?
Right Now round them up and push them over those cliffs boys.
That's what happened in Australia. The same lineage and race of people from Britain settled both here and Australia. The only difference was that NZ was a good size(smaller) and had a decent enough population of Indigenous people to prevent the full on Atrocities that took place across the Tasman. Of course the fact that Maori were not as placid as Aborigines, went a long way to preventing it as well. Hence the Treaty of Waitangi being drafted up by the Crown.
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 18:20:04 GMT 12
Yes Lux. The whole family watched it last night and it was fantastic how it all unfolded and how it ran so smoothly, And the support was incredible wasn't it?
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Post by manuela on May 31, 2007 19:15:59 GMT 12
Bloody typical manuela The Maori culture is oh so nice BUT BUT BUT If you really had learnt as much as is needed about NZ and Maoridom, you would be more informed and wouldn't spout out the usual claptrap from the people Whom really don't give a toss about or respect Maoridom. Many Pakeha also participated in the Hikoi. Obviously the ones who have gone to the trouble to learn what it is all about. wow hold five.... no need fly of the handle... I am trying to understand!!! now YOU tell ME where to learn as much as is needed about NZ and Maori? and what do you mean with bloody typical? |
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 19:22:41 GMT 12
That too is typical manuela. You are firstly negative and then you say
" Hey What did I say? "
Now that is typical.
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 19:25:12 GMT 12
Not flying off the handle either. Best way to get someone to think, I have found.
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Post by sparrow on May 31, 2007 19:28:45 GMT 12
so can I ask why Maori should get "special" treatments or rights in the general law? Maori don't, Manuela. The Foreshore and Seabed Act is a good example of how democratic rights are taken away in this country if the issues are Maori. I would be quite willing to put up all the legislation that has taken away rights from Maori in NZ History? Much of this legislation (and also Council bylaws) took away Maori land and resources. The Treaty holds an ambiguous place in constitutional law, but the State Service Sector Act is required to consider the principles of the Treaty in its public (or social) policy direction. Treaty rights aren't "special rights" or "social welfare" rights. They are familial rights and have only afforded Maori a modicum of protection (from what was promised) since 1985. |
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Post by manuela on May 31, 2007 19:36:55 GMT 12
thank you sparrow!
I do understand that the treaty rights are not the same as the social welfare etc! and I do understand that the Maori DID got and still get very short changed for their treaty rights... but what I dont' understand why Maori do get special treatment for none treaty "things"? has this to do with the Pakeha goverment trying to patch things over?
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 19:40:44 GMT 12
What are the special treatments manuela?
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 19:42:47 GMT 12
See Anna. You say that Maori don't get special treatments and what does the other person say?
Thank You for explaining that BUT why do maori get special treatment?
LOL
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 19:44:58 GMT 12
The problem here is that this thread is about the seabed and forshore situation but manuela like all the rest always do, goes off topic and makes it into the usually Generalisation crap.
I'd like to know what all the special treatments are.
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Post by manuela on May 31, 2007 19:47:18 GMT 12
What are the special treatments manuela? this is the way I see it (and I have been wrong before  ) : just one example: maori health providers; why is there such thing? |
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Post by manuela on May 31, 2007 19:49:51 GMT 12
The problem here is that this thread is about the seabed and forshore situation but manuela like all the rest always do, goes off topic and makes it into the usually Generalisation crap. I'd like to know what all the special treatments are. so you just did that, generalized me with all the rest! (who is all the rest?) and now I will leave the thread, looks like you are getting all upset... cause this is a thread about the seabed & foreshore situation... and just a quick reminder, I did answer to the original question, and then got a bollocking for asking a question... see you! |
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 19:54:11 GMT 12
What are the special treatments manuela? this is the way I see it (and I have been wrong before ) : just one example: maori health providers; why is there such thing? Because Maori have a 10 year less life expectancy. They die 10 years earlier manuela. The past systems have not done Maori any good. Do you know that? |
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Post by manuela on May 31, 2007 19:56:44 GMT 12
I knew that Maori have a lesser life expectancy - but I did NOT know that the past systems have to be blamed for that!
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Post by sparrow on May 31, 2007 20:03:13 GMT 12
What are the special treatments manuela? this is the way I see it (and I have been wrong before ) : just one example: maori health providers; why is there such thing? It is a Treaty right. In particular refers to Article 1 and Article 2 of the Treaty. This has been essentialised to the principle of Maori self-determination (and/or development), partnership and participation. A Maori provider does not exclude people from its services. |
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Post by sparrow on May 31, 2007 20:05:01 GMT 12
I knew that Maori have a lesser life expectancy - but I did NOT know that the past systems have to be blamed for that! They most certainly do. The Treaty has been used as a social justice tool because prior to its recognition, Maori were not afforded the same standard of care. Instead of asking "why" Maori want their own services, the critical question should be asked why Maori have left the mainstream in droves. |
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 20:11:26 GMT 12
The problem here is that this thread is about the seabed and forshore situation but manuela like all the rest always do, goes off topic and makes it into the usually Generalisation crap. I'd like to know what all the special treatments are. so you just did that, generalized me with all the rest! (who is all the rest?) and now I will leave the thread, looks like you are getting all upset... cause this is a thread about the seabed & foreshore situation... and just a quick reminder, I did answer to the original question, and then got a bollocking for asking a question... see you! That is true. I did just that. What's your point? I didn't say that I wasn't generalising with you. I said that you were regarding the seabed and foreshore issues. You are coming out with all the usual rubbish that people of a certain persuasian tend to do manuela. The seabed and foreshore issues are not on the same level with welfare or health or whatever. Those are debateable points but the Government changed the laws so that Maori could not take their complaints to court AFTER a Judge had given them the right to take their complaints to court. We're talking about changing the laws to suit the government's stances regarding Maoridom. Why is it that if a judge says that an individual or any corporation or any group Can have their case heard in court that it is fair but when the government changes the laws After the Maori win the right to have their case heard, it is perfectly fair as well? If only you knew of all of the law changes to disenfranchise Maoridom. |
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Post by Lux on May 31, 2007 21:44:17 GMT 12
What are the special treatments manuela? this is the way I see it (and I have been wrong before ) : just one example: maori health providers; why is there such thing? Because Maori health providers come from a Maori perspective they reach more Maori with health issues than mainstream providers, therefore if health issues are reduced it saves the Country money, also anyone can use the services of Maori health providers, they are there to serve the general public just like any other service, but they deliver from a Maori perspective. Its actually not a special privilege, its a sensible way to reduce health issues amongst Maori. Especially for the older generations who may distrust mainstream services as they have lived through times when mainstream services have been bias against Maori and disrespectful and ignorant of kaupapa Maori or the Maori perspective on health and wellbeing. |
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