naki
Full Member
Posts: 233
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Post by naki on Feb 13, 2009 6:09:14 GMT 12
Just try and not be closed minded about this naki and read and learn from some of the above posts. It will lift you up above many Kiwis who are happy being ignorant. cheers Oh the irony! terauparaha trots out every tired old separatist cliche in the book and then suggests that I should try not to be closed minded! When you're ready to be a real new Zealander, the rest of us are here. One people, one country, one set of rules for all. |
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Post by sparrow on Feb 13, 2009 8:05:32 GMT 12
What is a "real" New Zealander, naki? I struggle with this type of social cultural nationalism because it will be different. A lot of new immigrants, for example, would imagine a "real NZer is primarily white, male and a farmer. I can see how they would come to that conclusion because there is always a distinction between Maori and Pakeha in the media. (The irony on the farming bit is that since the 20th century NZ has been primarily urbanised - even earlier but commerce was based upon farming).
Matters regarding governance and sovereignty aren't separatist cliches or real problematics. Considering NZ has been on a course of devolution since the 1980s and even earlier, if you count local councils, there doesn't seem to be any reason why certain governance and powers regarding sovereignty cannot be devolved to local iwi.
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Post by terauparaha on Feb 13, 2009 10:21:57 GMT 12
Just try and not be closed minded about this naki and read and learn from some of the above posts. It will lift you up above many Kiwis who are happy being ignorant. cheers Oh the irony! terauparaha trots out every tired old separatist cliche in the book and then suggests that I should try not to be closed minded! When you're ready to be a real new Zealander, the rest of us are here. One people, one country, one set of rules for all. You alright there mate? |
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Post by terauparaha on Feb 13, 2009 10:24:45 GMT 12
What is a "real" New Zealander, naki? I struggle with this type of social cultural nationalism because it will be different. A lot of new immigrants, for example, would imagine a "real NZer is primarily white, male and a farmer. I can see how they would come to that conclusion because there is always a distinction between Maori and Pakeha in the media. (The irony on the farming bit is that since the 20th century NZ has been primarily urbanised - even earlier but commerce was based upon farming). Matters regarding governance and sovereignty aren't separatist cliches or real problematics. Considering NZ has been on a course of devolution since the 1980s and even earlier, if you count local councils, there doesn't seem to be any reason why certain governance and powers regarding sovereignty cannot be devolved to local iwi. It's the latest anti Maori cliche sparrow Kiwi or Iwi  I thought Iwi were the first Kiwis but there ya have it. |
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Post by treeman on Feb 13, 2009 10:37:45 GMT 12
To live side by side in harmony we ALL have to put aside OUR prejudices.Pakeha ,maori, asian,PI Everybody
even the Pakenas ( as my daughter used to call us) LOL
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Post by terauparaha on Feb 13, 2009 10:53:11 GMT 12
To live side by side in harmony we ALL have to put aside OUR prejudices.Pakeha ,maori, asian,PI Everybody even the Pakenas ( as my daughter used to call us) LOL ahh haa  |
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naki
Full Member
Posts: 233
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Post by naki on Feb 14, 2009 1:37:09 GMT 12
What is a "real" New Zealander, naki? January 20th, 1961, in his inaugural address ,John F Kennedy said....... And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. I'm a New Zealander by choice, and a patriot by moral obligation. If asked to, I would die for this country, because I'd rather die fighting than die with my hand in someone else's back pocket. I arrived here in 1986 with two suitcases and a decent education. My first job here was stacking shelves at Woolworths. The technology that I work with today hadn't even been invented back then. Everything that I own, I own as a result of hard work and motivation. In the short time that I have walked this earth, I have been lied to and cheated by more politicians and financial institutions than I care to remember, but I can still afford a decent home and lifestyle. I've worked bloody hard for it, and I'd be bloody ashamed of myself if I'd ended up sitting on my arse in a state house, blaming everyone else fornot playing by the rules. Life can be hard for all of us. But it can also be good to those who stand up and take a bit of pride in themselves. I work 50-60 hours most weeks to bring home a great lifestyle for my family.So do the Fijians, the South Africans, the Samoans, the Russians, the Pakeha and the Maori whoI have the pleasure to work with. I could find plenty of people to blame if I'd chosen an easier path, and demanded apologies from quite a few too, but I refuse to cast myself as a victim. Unlike terauparaha, I was born into a country where racial strife was an everyday occurence, where rights and lives were expendable depending on the colour of your skin, and people lived or died at the whim of dictators. Family members that I have grown up with have fought and died for the country that they had the right to live in. By comparison, today's Maori activists are a bunch of spoon-fed whingers who are a drain on both Maoridom and New Zealand. |
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Post by kokonutwoman on Feb 14, 2009 6:22:05 GMT 12
Yes naki, I am a victim, a victim of New Zealand's harsh societal climate in 1950s - 1970s and unfortunately for some, has lead me to activism of human and indigenous rights/injustices. Walk a mile in my shoes then you may get an understanding. Plenty of immigrants in the 1960s and 70s have worked bloody hard for what they have but they also embrace the indigenity of Aotearoa unlike recent immigrants I've found hence their confusion and they negative attitudes toward "spoon-fed Maori activist" It's not all about "historical victim" it's about historical injustice and the acknowledgment of wrong doing. Bit like the Germany and the fallout of WW2 hence leading to what we have now - UN. I understand that Germany is still paying restitution for historical injustice. So what's the difference. www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p243_Weber.html |
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Post by sparrow on Feb 14, 2009 10:09:48 GMT 12
What is a "real" New Zealander, naki? January 20th, 1961, in his inaugural address ,John F Kennedy said....... And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. I'm a New Zealander by choice, and a patriot by moral obligation. If asked to, I would die for this country, because I'd rather die fighting than die with my hand in someone else's back pocket. I arrived here in 1986 with two suitcases and a decent education. My first job here was stacking shelves at Woolworths. The technology that I work with today hadn't even been invented back then. Everything that I own, I own as a result of hard work and motivation. In the short time that I have walked this earth, I have been lied to and cheated by more politicians and financial institutions than I care to remember, but I can still afford a decent home and lifestyle. I've worked bloody hard for it, and I'd be bloody ashamed of myself if I'd ended up sitting on my arse in a state house, blaming everyone else fornot playing by the rules. Life can be hard for all of us. But it can also be good to those who stand up and take a bit of pride in themselves. I work 50-60 hours most weeks to bring home a great lifestyle for my family.So do the Fijians, the South Africans, the Samoans, the Russians, the Pakeha and the Maori whoI have the pleasure to work with. I could find plenty of people to blame if I'd chosen an easier path, and demanded apologies from quite a few too, but I refuse to cast myself as a victim. Unlike terauparaha, I was born into a country where racial strife was an everyday occurence, where rights and lives were expendable depending on the colour of your skin, and people lived or died at the whim of dictators. Family members that I have grown up with have fought and died for the country that they had the right to live in. By comparison, today's Maori activists are a bunch of spoon-fed whingers who are a drain on both Maoridom and New Zealand. Naki you can't take the media's version of "spoon fed whingers" as gospel because it is distorted. From my perspective it takes a lot of fortitude for people to fight for their rights (promises made, promises broken, truth and reconciliation) for well over 150 years. It's not just a matter of working hard in NZ and you'll make it. Maori were stripped of land, resources and opportunities to "make it", then blamed for failure. If you are interested in the legislation and social policy that stripped Maori (by no means complete but certainly an overview) I will happily put it up for your perusal. The other thing in NZ is that it wasn't good enough to strip Maori of land and resources, in order to fit in Maori had to adopt the ideology of one nation-one people which, in fact, meant the eradication of culture and difference. Those remnants are still there in the discussions of people from certain generations who were happiest when Maori (and Pakeha too) weren't allowed to discuss racial inequalities because it contradicted the harmonious race-relations myth. On the race relations note, Maori rights are not confined within a nationalised race relations narrative. This is a distinction that needs to be made. Treaty settlements are not about race-relations (although that is a side affect). Biculturalism is the socio-political ideology which frames the discussion of race-relations. Treaty settlements are about compensation and interestingly in the process the Crown is defendant, researcher, adjudicator, arbiter and final authority in cases that are, essentially, against themselves. If Treaty settlements make people feel uncomfortable - then so be it, but they are about social justice and rights, not about harmonious race-relations. |
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