Our children

[kokonutwoman]

There has been a lot of news report about our babies either being locked out while mother hits the turps or recitative youth offenders being placed in the custody of their parents and continued criminal rampage.

In both cases I feel that the parents are responsible therefore what level of action if any should be taken against the parents? Are we a society where PC has gone mad? Your thoughts.

[sparrow]

In the first instance: absolutely. If babies are locked out while mothers and fathers are on the turps - the parents are responsible already and should be prosecuted etc.

Recidivist youth offenders should not be placed in the custody of their parents and be allowed to continue their rampage. The parents can already be done for neglect on this one.

We all know wayward kids and unless the parents have sought help or intervention, I think there is parental responsibility there too. I know of people who have sought help and haven't got it, but desperately needed it, and other parents who have enabled their children to continue with their behaviour. The boy racing fraternity is one area where I'd ping parents for enabling their kids to purchase cars and/or bankrolling them to break the law.

Just my 10 cents worth on it.

[Lux]

In both scenarios they should lose their kids. Be made to enroll in parenting classes, and drug and alcohol services. The programs should be run by people who have been there and rehabilitated, not some do gooder fresh graduate with honours in the written world but no life experience. The training and rehabilitative services need to be honest and tough, while at the same time empowering. And a more holistic approach should be taken, involving wider family. Finding the strengths in family members can help solve a number of problems, for example if 'Mum' or 'Dad' is going off the rails network with that 'Aunty' Uncle' 'Grandparent' who has the ability to pull them in by the ear...theres always someone, its a matter of finding out who that person its. If Mum says I can't get to class because I haven't any transport or money, contact the person in the family who you know will make sure they get there, if you work holistically involving all family members, each having a role to play you are empowering the whole family to work together and become a strong unit. I think a lot of the time there are qualities in all of us which are overlooked, they need to be utilised. Its a matter of organisation. And tough talk expressed with love.

No one in my family would dare mistreat their kids because someone else in my family would make damn sure they'd pay the price.

[kokonutwoman]

Sparrow I'm with you on the 'boy racers.' I like what Paul Henry said the other morning. He suggested perhaps crushing their cars and if the boys were habitual, them inside. Bit drastic but nice concept.

It's interesting Lux that you have mentioned the holistic approach because cyfs, police and correction have finally realised that it is not only the youth that needs the 'fixing' but the family unit as a whole. But the danger of this approach would be the misinterpretation of 'holistic' by the text book workers and agency bailing them out and therefore not addressing the problem effectively. Most Pacific and Maori community workers I know tend to use this approach effectively and have done so for years at a grass roots level.

[hps]

Well said ladies. I would add something here but there is no need to. Just impressed with your comments and wanted to tell you so.

cheers


Lux, my family is similar to yours. I cannot imagine any of my lot treating their kids badly because the rest of us would come down on them like a tonne of bricks. This is the problem with today's world especially for Maori who are distanced from their whanau living in the cities which is so different from the recent past of living communally together. My family is like yours, very close although I live the farthest from my family. Also my mum's whanau were very close while I grew up and yep they had their share of parties but there was definitely never any violence by the men towards their wives and kids and they wouldn't have dared either. They lived in close proximity also which is a huge plus for the extended family. They always helped one another out with food and what not when any of them needed food or money and it was incredible how it leveled itself out too.

Caryl and I weren't married for long when one of my unlces grabbed a side of lamb out of the freezer and he left a note saying so(an I owe you). We never worried about it and he replaced it a week or two later but with more. He made sure we had plenty of meat first too. I'm quite proud of those days.

Things changed a bit when my Taua died and even more when my grandad died. It's gotten more individualistic among the family which is sad.

oops I added something didn't I but they are just my own experiences.

And I digressed from the topic didn't I? LOL although I think my situation above is exactly what's wrong today among many Kiwis. The lack of the extended family unit and no communal living.

I know alot about your family situation Lux as we know one another well and you are very lucky indeed.

[Lux]

It is sad that families have become more individualistic, so in cultures where extended family played a huge roll in the raising of the family, is this where the major breakdowns are happening we see through media that some Maori and Pacific Island families are struggling in the area of raising children successfully is this a specific problem among Maori and Pacific Island families? Has it to do with the break down of cultural values, or is it a wider problem which specifically relates to economic inequalities?

Then there are the more insidious abuses, which aren't there for the naked eye to see, the psychological and hidden abuses, in my area of work I see a lot of children who are suffering those abuses and they aren't Maori or Pacific Islander.

We have become more individualistic and in my opinion that is one of the downfalls of Capitalism,
Are we teaching our kids to buy into the same, its all about me, what I can get and how I do it is none of your business? Theres no respect with Capitalism... its a dog eat dog world...as the old saying goes.

[hps]

I think that my theory effects Maoridom more than Pakeha because they (pakeha) are older hands at living as individuals and within their own direct family unit of mum dad and two or three kids and seeing their extended families on the odd public holiday.

Many Maori families have only been doing this for a short time.

Yes Tan there are other factors including money problems and other stresses that anyone could experience but my point is the main point of difference between Maori and Pakeha and why Maori figure higher in the bad stats.

[bottlecar]

It's interesting Lux that you have mentioned the holistic approach because cyfs, police and correction have finally realised that it is not only the youth that needs the 'fixing' but the family unit as a whole. But the danger of this approach would be the misinterpretation of 'holistic' by the text book workers and agency bailing them out and therefore not addressing the problem effectively. Most Pacific and Maori community workers I know tend to use this approach effectively and have done so for years at a grass roots level.

Kokonutwoman, I'm going on family partnership training in a couple of weeks which is looking at empowering families, hehe well at least I think that's it. I'm looking forward to it.

[kokonutwoman]

Hey Bottlecar let me know how the training goes. There was one that I went to and ended up walking out. Too much touchy touchy feeling approach I think reality got lost in the hand book guide to community work

[bottlecar]

LMAO kokonutwoman I SOOOOOO know what you mean about the touchy feely stuff!

[hps]

Grubby old men running it?

[bottlecar]

Hope so on second thoughts maybe not