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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 17:53:49 GMT 12
what a good person you are terau,...only people with a good heart disposition will allow a Jw to talk to them ,.. it is confusing to read the bible ,...Its often described as a two edged sword,...because whatever is in the bible is alive,. and its able to discern what is in the heart just read what u can of it terau ,..then let it do its own work,..it wont happen overnight but it will happen,..   I'm not the type to tell anyone to go away misilon. I might seem a hard nut on the net but in reality I'm a soft bugger even though I am stubborn with it.  I am actually very interested in religion because it is and has been such a huge thing in the development of humanity and I have had so little to do with religion. I think that it is easy to see how believing in Gods got started. It was the best way to explain Nature, simply by saying that gods must have made everything. On a discovery channel documentary a while ago, they said that an Egyptian Pharoah was the first person to say that there was ONE God and that their slaves who were either Jews already or became Jews as a result of it, took up the idea of there being one God and that is how it all started. The one God thing. What do you think of this misilon? |
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Post by misilon on May 31, 2007 22:04:18 GMT 12
what a good person you are terau,...only people with a good heart disposition will allow a Jw to talk to them ,.. it is confusing to read the bible ,...Its often described as a two edged sword,...because whatever is in the bible is alive,. and its able to discern what is in the heart just read what u can of it terau ,..then let it do its own work,..it wont happen overnight but it will happen,.. I'm not the type to tell anyone to go away misilon. I might seem a hard nut on the net but in reality I'm a soft bugger even though I am stubborn with it. I am actually very interested in religion because it is and has been such a huge thing in the development of humanity and I have had so little to do with religion. I think that it is easy to see how believing in Gods got started. It was the best way to explain Nature, simply by saying that gods must have made everything. On a discovery channel documentary a while ago, they said that an Egyptian Pharoah was the first person to say that there was ONE God and that their slaves who were either Jews already or became Jews as a result of it, took up the idea of there being one God and that is how it all started. The one God thing. What do you think of this misilon? Pharoah could see the strength of Jehovah in the lives of the israelite slaves,..who even under terrible oppression from the egyptians stayed strong for thier god, the israelites were already Jehovahs chosen people at the time of being slaves in egypt, and even hundreds of years before they became slaves in egypt the israelites already knew who Jehovah was,.... But pharoah was stubborn enuff to believe HE and his gods was tougher than Jehovah, and he wouldnt let the people go when moses asked for them to be freed ,....... However after the tenth plague (of the ten plagues).....he conceded and let jehovahs people go,..it was then he admitted that God was the one god Jehovah The gods of Egypt were judged helpless There could be no question as to who was greater, Pharaoh’s Gods...or Jehovah. Pharoah acknowledged it was Jehovah,.. |
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Post by misilon on May 31, 2007 22:08:48 GMT 12
that is the bibles account of how it came about that pharoah said what he did bout God ,..
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 22:39:12 GMT 12
Oh Sorry misilon. I didn't mean that story. Is that the Moses and Rameses story that you refer to?
What I saw was further back in time and how one of the Pharoahs was the first to introduce the idea of One God which the slaves latched onto. They accepted it because of the position they were in by being slaves with no real lives and no freedom. It is very easy for me to accpet those accounts because it is a commonsense account. They have artifacts to back it up. These artifacts and findings coincide with the very first proof of when the Jews started up as a religion and race of people and they were this Pharoah's slaves.
This led to the Moses stories.
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 22:45:56 GMT 12
I will add here misilon that I do respect your JW religion more than most because you guys do try and live by every word in the bible and don't seem to choose the bits that suit you.
The 144,000 chosen ones for heaven is a good point. Catholics and Anglicans(what I was baptised) don't preach that only 144,000 are supposed to go to heaven as the bible states and you don't expect to be the chosen ones. I do respect that.
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Post by terauparaha on May 31, 2007 22:47:59 GMT 12
I also respect the Muslims because they go full hog (so to speak). I feel that other religions choose what suits them which makes them look like hypocrites in so many incidents.
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Post by misilon on May 31, 2007 23:26:27 GMT 12
Oh Sorry misilon. I didn't mean that story. Is that the Moses and Rameses story that you refer to? What I saw was further back in time and how one of the Pharoahs was the first to introduce the idea of One God which the slaves latched onto. They accepted it because of the position they were in by being slaves with no real lives and no freedom. It is very easy for me to accpet those accounts because it is a commonsense account. They have artifacts to back it up. These artifacts and findings coincide with the very first proof of when the Jews started up as a religion and race of people and they were this Pharoah's slaves. This led to the Moses stories. you can have ur choice of whatever you want to believe, its up to u but as a reference of the true biblical account of moses and pharoah,.. it can be read in the bible at exodus starting at chapter 2,. |
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Post by misilon on May 31, 2007 23:30:08 GMT 12
The 144,000 chosen ones for heaven is a good point. Catholics and Anglicans(what I was baptised) don't preach that only 144,000 are supposed to go to heaven as the bible states and you don't expect to be the chosen ones. I do respect that. excellent post,..you have been listening to whoever has been talking to you,..great understanding terau,.. |
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Post by terauparaha on Jun 1, 2007 12:17:36 GMT 12
Oh Sorry misilon. I didn't mean that story. Is that the Moses and Rameses story that you refer to? What I saw was further back in time and how one of the Pharoahs was the first to introduce the idea of One God which the slaves latched onto. They accepted it because of the position they were in by being slaves with no real lives and no freedom. It is very easy for me to accpet those accounts because it is a commonsense account. They have artifacts to back it up. These artifacts and findings coincide with the very first proof of when the Jews started up as a religion and race of people and they were this Pharoah's slaves. This led to the Moses stories. you can have ur choice of whatever you want to believe, its up to u but as a reference of the true biblical account of moses and pharoah,.. it can be read in the bible at exodus starting at chapter 2,. There have been movies about moses leading the Jews to Israel and all that stuff like parting the red sea misilon. I don't mean that story. I mean back before that. They have artifacts and written stuff pointing to an earlier Pharoah being the first to say that there was one god. His slaves started believing in it and the Jews come from this. |
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Post by terauparaha on Jun 1, 2007 12:20:25 GMT 12
The 144,000 chosen ones for heaven is a good point. Catholics and Anglicans(what I was baptised) don't preach that only 144,000 are supposed to go to heaven as the bible states and you don't expect to be the chosen ones. I do respect that. excellent post,..you have been listening to whoever has been talking to you,..great understanding terau,.. Yes but I would like to clear it up misilon. I understand what is written regards the 144,000 going to heaven stuff but I don't think it's true. Cheers |
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Post by terauparaha on Jun 1, 2007 12:23:07 GMT 12
I just mean that I respect you guys for taking most of the words in the bible exactly for what they are. Others ignore the things that don't suit them.
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Post by misilon on Jun 1, 2007 15:31:18 GMT 12
you can have ur choice of whatever you want to believe, its up to u but as a reference of the true biblical account of moses and pharoah,.. it can be read in the bible at exodus starting at chapter 2,. There have been movies about moses leading the Jews to Israel and all that stuff like parting the red sea misilon. I don't mean that story. I mean back before that. They have artifacts and written stuff pointing to an earlier Pharoah being the first to say that there was one god. His slaves started believing in it and the Jews come from this. sorry terau here I am not understanding what you are looking for might it be the account of Joseph and his ability to interpret the pharoahs dream ,.. he was made 2nd in charge ruler over all of egypt,..his birth father was whom the nation of israel came from his name was israel,.. |
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Post by misilon on Jun 1, 2007 15:45:19 GMT 12
His original name was Jacob but when he turned 97 yrs old during that night,.
he wrestled with an angel ,..he would not let the angel go till he had recieved a blessing from jehovah and he was blessed for his efforts,... jehovah named him Israel ,..
he had 12 sons who became known as the sons of israel,..
joseph who had become 2nd in charge over all egypt was the youngest bar 1 benjamin,..
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Post by misilon on Jun 1, 2007 15:53:42 GMT 12
In 1728 B.C.E. a famine happened along which caused the household of Jacob ( ISRAEL) to travel to Egypt,( where, not realizing that his son Joseph was in charge there,. cos for years he had believed him to be dead,).. and as alien residents, their descendants remained for 215 years.
All the Israelites reckoned as “of the house of Jacob who came into Egypt,” not counting the wives of Jacob’s sons, were 70. But during their sojourn there they became a very large society of slaves, totaling perhaps some two or three million or more.—-really good breeders huh? they were known for thier ability to do so,.
the story of how Joseph ended up in egypt and aquired the postion he did, as second in command, is also fascinating reading ,..and you will find it in the bible book of genesis,...
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Post by terauparaha on Jun 2, 2007 0:16:03 GMT 12
Sorry misilon but I don't mean any bible story or account of anything. I mean that artifacts and writings have been found that prove that one of the earliest Pharoahs actually begot the original idea that there may be the ONE God which the slaves quickly latched onto which is understandable considering how they were living as slaves.
Before this Pharoah, everyone in the Area believed in multiple Gods like the Greeks and Maori and other races and cultures around the world.
It was a Man, A Pharoah who invented the One God idea. Not any God. Unless God told HIM, that is.
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Post by terauparaha on Jun 2, 2007 0:16:58 GMT 12
I think the problem here is that I can't remember the Pharoah's name.
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Post by queenie on Jun 2, 2007 8:57:11 GMT 12
I have a question Misilon, how old do you think the world is?
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Post by queenie on Jun 2, 2007 9:29:37 GMT 12
I also respect the Muslims because they go full hog (so to speak). I feel that other religions choose what suits them which makes them look like hypocrites in so many incidents. I think you would find that many muslims put their own interpretation on the Koran, and going the full hog can justify stoning to death a 16yr old girl for answering back to a judge.. beating there wife, not providing education for women.. and then there is what we would call the teriorism.... |
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Post by misilon on Jun 2, 2007 11:31:34 GMT 12
hello queenie
the world?
do you mean the universe ? ,..
If geologists want to say that the earth is 4 billion years old, or astronomers want to make the universe 20 billion years old, the Bible student has no quarrel with them.
our planet earth is also part and parcel of the universe,..
If you mean the world as in the world of mankind, then for me as a bible student man is just over 6000 yrs old
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Post by crheas on Jun 2, 2007 11:42:51 GMT 12
I also respect the Muslims because they go full hog (so to speak). I feel that other religions choose what suits them which makes them look like hypocrites in so many incidents. i agree as far as respecting people who have the faith to do everything in their power to follow their religion 100% but i'm realistic ... and my view of organized religion... is that no two people believe the exact same things 100% .. its called free will ... so people follow relgions that match their beliefs (for the most part) as closely as possible. and there's something to say for that as well. |
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Post by misilon on Jun 2, 2007 11:52:51 GMT 12
Sorry misilon but I don't mean any bible story or account of anything. I mean that artifacts and writings have been found that prove that one of the earliest Pharoahs actually begot the original idea that there may be the ONE God which the slaves quickly latched onto which is understandable considering how they were living as slaves. Before this Pharoah, everyone in the Area believed in multiple Gods like the Greeks and Maori and other races and cultures around the world. It was a Man, A Pharoah who invented the One God idea. Not any God. Unless God told HIM, that is. then you must be talking secular talk unless you can come up with specific details,.. it just becomes like chasing after the wind,..a go nowhere situation,.. or ,...ur just joshing me along with humbug korero,.. |
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Post by terauparaha on Jun 2, 2007 15:26:08 GMT 12
I also respect the Muslims because they go full hog (so to speak). I feel that other religions choose what suits them which makes them look like hypocrites in so many incidents. I think you would find that many muslims put their own interpretation on the Koran, and going the full hog can justify stoning to death a 16yr old girl for answering back to a judge.. beating there wife, not providing education for women.. and then there is what we would call the teriorism.... You have just picked out the very worst things that a small percentage of Muslims do. I just respect that they fully believe in their religion and don't just go to church maybe once per week and then think that they are good Christians. Christianity is just a convenience for many many people. Just on your comments regards women and education. Are there any Muslim women living in the Western world who don't get educated? I think not. In their own countries, I actually wonder what they think of education for men and women fullstop. One of the many bullcrap reasons for Tony Blair and G.W.Bush going into Iraq is that they are Christian and that God told them to and Look at Iraq now. Worse off than before. |
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Post by terauparaha on Jun 2, 2007 15:30:22 GMT 12
I also respect the Muslims because they go full hog (so to speak). I feel that other religions choose what suits them which makes them look like hypocrites in so many incidents. i agree as far as respecting people who have the faith to do everything in their power to follow their religion 100% but i'm realistic ... and my view of organized religion... is that no two people believe the exact same things 100% .. its called free will ... so people follow relgions that match their beliefs (for the most part) as closely as possible. and there's something to say for that as well. Fair Comment |
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Post by terauparaha on Jun 2, 2007 15:46:55 GMT 12
Sorry misilon but I don't mean any bible story or account of anything. I mean that artifacts and writings have been found that prove that one of the earliest Pharoahs actually begot the original idea that there may be the ONE God which the slaves quickly latched onto which is understandable considering how they were living as slaves. Before this Pharoah, everyone in the Area believed in multiple Gods like the Greeks and Maori and other races and cultures around the world. It was a Man, A Pharoah who invented the One God idea. Not any God. Unless God told HIM, that is. then you must be talking secular talk unless you can come up with specific details,.. it just becomes like chasing after the wind,..a go nowhere situation,.. or ,...ur just joshing me along with humbug korero,.. Nope misilon. You can't get yourself away from one or two stories. Like Moses and God really did those things to the Egyptians like killing all of their sons. What god would kill thousands of children? Surely you can't believe that. God didn't tell the Jews that they were the chosen people. An early Pharoah was the first to say that there is one God and the slaves took up the idea. I just can't remember the Pharoah's name. I could google it but then you wouldn't want to know anyway. They actually have proof of this in the artifacts and writings that have been found. There is no proof that God chose the Jews as his chosen people. The Christian God would surely not choose one peoples over all others. Not on what is preached about him. He is perfect according to all the preachings and no perfect God would do Horrible things like killing children or choose the Jews over all others. No Way |
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Post by terauparaha on Jun 2, 2007 15:51:35 GMT 12
It's like us all saying that God wouldn't want the extreme nutty Muslims who think that he wants them to kill all infidels, to do so.
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